On 3/15/2011 9:19 AM, Benno Blumenthal wrote:
> I am sorry, but this conversation is more confusing that it needs to
> be -- once calendar 360_day is chosen, there is nothing "fuzzy" about
> month or year, and once calendar 365_day or 366_day is chosen, there
> is nothing "fuzzy" about year. udunits does not support calendar, so
> its poor choice of month/year support is not an issue -- if it did
> support calendar (which is in the standard), then it would handle
> year/month correctly for these choices of calendar.
i think the issue is that udunits is not a good reference library for
date handling, and that we should create a new reference library.
the problem with udunits is:
1) it does not support calenders.
2) it allows units of month and year, but implements them in a way
thats appropriate to dimensional units, not calendar dates.
>
> Benno
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Jon Blower <j.d.blower at reading.ac.uk
> <mailto:j.d.blower at reading.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> I think it's good to remove the dependence on UDUNITS from the CDM
> for date handling.
>
> However, although "date" is not a unit of measure, "seconds" is,
> and so is "month" in the definition of UDUNITS. Since CF defines
> that we use the UDUNITS interpretation of month/year, it would
> seem dangerous to change this assumption for backward compatibility?
>
> (It's not just that months are of variable lengths within a year,
> but also that there are different definitions of a "month".
> UDUNITS uses a fixed year-length (not a calendar year length) and
> a month is year/12.)
>
> BTW, the various calendars are implemented in ncWMS at
> http://www.resc.rdg.ac.uk/trac/ncWMS/browser/trunk/src/java/uk/ac/rdg/resc/edal/time.
>
> I even wrote half-decent unit tests - aren't I a good boy? ;-)
>
> Jon
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu
> <mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu>
> [mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu
> <mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu>] On Behalf Of John Caron
> Sent: 15 March 2011 13:02
> To: cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu <mailto:cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu>
> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] udunits handling of fuzzy time units
>
> On 3/15/2011 5:03 AM, Karl Taylor wrote:
> > I agree with Jon.
> >
> > By definition, I think, a "unit of measure" must not vary; hence
> month
> > is not a proper unit and not only depends on month of year, but also
> > on assumed calendar (and similarly for year). Therefore, I think
> > "months since" and "years since" should not be allowed in CF.
> >
> > Karl
>
> Hi Karl:
>
> so if currently we cant actually use months and years, because of the
> way udunits handles them, why not redefine how they should be
> understood
> when you do use them, namely as setting the month or year field in a
> date calculation.
>
> this eases the burden on data writers, and makes the metadata human
> readable, at the cost of a small increase in the complexity of
> libraries
> that read data.
>
> one more comment: a date is not a unit of measure, and therein
> lies all
> the trouble. IMO, date handling should be removed from the udunits
> package, which is what im doing now in the CDM (not removing date
> handling from udunits, just not using udunits anymore to handle
> dates).
>
> John
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>
>
> --
> Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal benno at iri.columbia.edu
> <mailto:benno at iri.columbia.edu>
> International Research Institute for climate and society
> The Earth Institute at Columbia University
> Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450
>
>
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