Hello Philip/Alison
Couple of points.
(1) Radicals are more of relevance to the atmosphere than water bodies so I don't think confusion between them and ions is an issue. As standard names are becoming incorporated into URLs, the '+' character is best avoided. Also without semantic support (which is coming), very few datasets labelled 'NO3-' would get found as most oceanographers would search for 'nitrate'
(2) 'net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate_consumption' or 'net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate_nutrition' would get around Alison's issue. 'due_to_nitrate' is simply lazy speak for the process.
Cheers, Roy.
-----Original Message-----
From: cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Philip J. Cameronsmith1
Sent: 28 April 2010 23:04
To: alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk
Cc: Keith Lindsay; CF-metadata email list; John.Dunne at noaa.gov
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] BGC output for CMIP5 simulations (fwd)
Hi Alison,
Thanks for your email.
I am not an expert on ecosystems, and so will defer to those who are.
I had assumed that the variable was for carbon production CAUSED by
nitrate through some process, in which case _due_to_ seemed to me to be
appropriate.
Going back to your spreadsheet, I see that the description for
net_new_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon was 'Vertically integrated
primary (organic carbon) production by phytoplankton based on NO3 alone'.
So now I'm not so sure, and need guidance from an expert.
Is this quantity just being calculated using nitrate as a proxy data
source, or is it production caused by nitrate?
BTW, we might consider replacing NO3 and NH4 in the description with
'nitrate' and 'ammonium', or 'NO3-' and 'NH4+', or making it unambiguous
in some other way, that these are ions and not radicals. Admittedly, this
is probably obvious to most people with some familiarity with the
chemistry or biology, but we might as well be precise.
Best wishes,
Philip
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010, alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk wrote:
> Dear Philip,
>
> Thanks very much for forwarding these emails to the list and sorry for
> not picking up on this thread sooner.
>
> The standard names
> tendency_of_mole_concentration_of_particulate_organic_matter_expressed_a
> s_carbon_in_sea_water_due_to_net_new_primary_production; mol m-3 s-1
> net_new_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon; mol m-2 s-1
> were accepted after discussion in the 'CMIP5 ocean biogeochemistry
> standard names' thread.
>
> However, the name
> net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate
> is now being proposed for the second quantity because there is some
> confusion as to the precise meaning of 'new' production.
>
> As the accepted names have not yet been added to the standard name table
> I think we could change them provided everyone agrees. Both names should
> be changed to be consistent with one another. The phrase 'due_to' is
> reserved in standard names for describing a process, e.g.
> 'due_to_convection', so 'due_to_nitrate' doesn't really fit that
> pattern. Would
> net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_from_nutrients_containing_nitrat
> e
> or just
> net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_from_nitrate_nutrients
> be an accurate description?
>
> The first name could then be changed to
> tendency_of_mole_concentration_of_particulate_organic_matter_expressed_a
> s_carbon_in_sea_water_due_to_net_primary_production_from_{nutrients_cont
> aining_nitrate}|{nitrate_nutrients}.
>
> Perhaps John Dunne could also comment on these ideas.
>
> Best wishes,
> Alison
>
> ------
> Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065
> NCAS/British Atmospheric Data Centre Fax: +44 1235 446314
> Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Email: alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk
> Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-
>> bounces at cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Philip J. Cameronsmith1
>> Sent: 22 April 2010 00:05
>> To: CF-metadata email list
>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] BGC output for CMIP5 simulations (fwd)
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> It appears that the wrong email address for the CF list was used for
>> some
>> of the emails in the conversation below. Hence, I am forwarding the
>> final email for the record.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Philip
>>
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> Dr Philip Cameron-Smith Atmospheric, Earth, and Energy Division
>> pjc at llnl.gov Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
>> +1 925 4236634 7000 East Avenue, Livermore, CA94550,
>> USA
>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:15:39
>> From: Keith Lindsay <klindsay at ucar.edu>
>> To: Philip J. Cameronsmith1 <cameronsmith1 at llnl.gov>
>> Cc: John.Dunne at noaa.gov, Ernst Maier-Reimer <ernst.maier-
>> reimer at zmaw.de>,
>> Corinne Le Quere <C.Lequere at uea.ac.uk>,
>> Bruce Hackett <bruce.hackett at met.no>,
>> Thomas LOUBRIEU <Thomas.Loubrieu at ifremer.fr>,
>> Laurent Bopp <laurent.bopp at lsce.ipsl.fr>,
>> Pierre Friedlingstein <pierre.friedlingstein at lsce.ipsl.fr>,
>> James Orr <J.Orr at iaea.org>, Laurence Crosnier
> <lcrosnier at mercator-
>> ocean.fr>,
>> Chris Jones <chris.d.jones at metoffice.gov.uk>, cf-
>> metadata at ucar.edu,
>> Karl Taylor <taylor13 at llnl.gov>, Yann BARZIC
>> <Yann.Barzic at ifremer.fr>
>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] BGC output for CMIP5 simulations
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2010, Philip J. Cameronsmith1 wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Keith, et al.
>>>
>>> By no3 I assume you mean the negatively charged nitrate ion (NO3-).
>> In which
>>> case I recommend using 'nitrate' in the standard name instead of
>> 'no3'. This
>>> will then be consistent with existing standard names, and avoid
>> confusion
>>> with the uncharged nitrate radical (NO3).
>>>
>>> In looking at the standard name table I think it would also be more
>>> consistent to use _due_to_ instead of _from_. The latter is mainly
>> used for
>>> physical directions, eg _into_sea_water_from_rivers, while the
> former
>> is
>>> mainly used when when the quantity is changing _due_to_ another
>> process, eg
>>> tendency_of_air_temperature_due_to_shortwave_heating.
>>>
>>> Hence, I suggest you consider the following:
>>>
>>> net_primary_mole_productivity_of_carbon_due_to_nitrate
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Philip
>>>
>>
>> Philip,
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback. Your comments are on target. I propose going
>> with your
>> standard name.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> ******************************************************************
>> Keith Lindsay http://**www.**cgd.ucar.edu/oce/klindsay/
>> email: klindsay at ucar.edu phone: 303-497-1722 fax: 303-497-1700
>> _______________________________________________
>> CF-metadata mailing list
>> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>> http://*mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Philip Cameron-Smith Atmospheric, Earth, and Energy Division
pjc at llnl.gov Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
+1 925 4236634 7000 East Avenue, Livermore, CA94550, USA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Received on Thu Apr 29 2010 - 04:35:29 BST
