Fine for me too.
Cheers, Roy.
I am retiring on 31/05/2018 but will continue to be active through an Emeritus Fellowship using this e-mail address.
________________________________
From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of Daniel Neumann <daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
Sent: 18 May 2018 13:39
To: cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] No standard names for element concentrations in sediment?
Dear Jonathan,
That's fine for me.
Daniel
On 18.05.2018 14:37, Jonathan Gregory wrote:
> Dear Daniel and Roy
>
> I sent an email yesterday which for some reason disappeared into the void.
> Please could I request sea_floor_sediment instead of seabed_sediment? That's
> because we already use sea_floor in several standard names, but not sedbed.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jonathan
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Daniel Neumann <daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de> -----
>
>> Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 13:31:04 +0200
>> From: Daniel Neumann <daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>> To: "cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu" <cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] No standard names for element concentrations in
>> sediment?
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
>> Thunderbird/52.7.0
>>
>> Hi Roy,
>>
>>
>> OK, that's fine. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>> On 18.05.2018 13:25, Lowry, Roy K. wrote:
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the solids in sediment are silicate minerals, quite often
>>> quartz (silicon dioxide), which would be included in
>>> 'moles_of_silicon' So, I suggest:
>>>
>>>
>>> moles_of_dissolved_inorganic_plus_biogenic_silicon_per_unit_area_in_seabed_sediment
>>>
>>> unit: mol/m2
>>>
>>> description: moles_of_X_per_unit_area_in_Y describes the amount of
>>> X in a column with unity base area of material/compartment Y.
>>> 'Seabed sediment' means particulate matter bound at the sea floor
>>> including interstitial pore water. Information on the location of
>>> the interface between water column and sediment can be provided
>>> via the comment attribute. 'Dissolved inorganic silicon' means the
>>> sum of all inorganic silicon in solution (including silicic acid
>>> and its first dissociated anion SiO(OH)3-). 'Biogenic silicon' is
>>> any silicon compound, usually the mineral opal, produced by
>>> organisms (e.g. diatom skeletal remains) in solid or colloidal
>>> form.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Roy.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am retiring on 31/05/2018 but will continue to be active through
>>> an Emeritus Fellowship using this e-mail address.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* CF-metadata <cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf
>>> of Daniel Neumann <daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>> *Sent:* 18 May 2018 10:45
>>> *To:* cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>>> *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] No standard names for element
>>> concentrations in sediment?
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for correction. I realized that I need a standard name not
>>> only for silicate but for biogenic silica plus silicate. I updated
>>> the proposed name and description as follows:
>>>
>>> moles_of_silicon_per_unit_area_in_seabed_sediment
>>>
>>> unit: mol/m2
>>>
>>> description: moles_of_X_per_unit_area_in_Y describes the amount of
>>> X in a column with unity base area of material/compartment Y.
>>> 'Seabed sediment' means particulate matter bound at the sea floor
>>> including interstitial pore water. Information on the location of
>>> the interface between water column and sediment can be provided
>>> via the comment attribute. 'Silicon' summarizes 'dissolved
>>> inorganic silicon' and 'biogenic silica'. 'Dissolved inorganic
>>> silicon' means the sum of all inorganic silicon in solution
>>> (including silicic acid and its first dissociated anion
>>> SiO(OH)3-). 'Biogenic silica' are biogenic silicon minerals which
>>> originate from the siliceous skeletal material of dead diatoms and
>>> other silica-utilizing organisms.
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18.05.2018 09:47, Lowry, Roy K. wrote:
>>>> Hi (yet) again,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Overnight I remembered a debate on CF about not using'dissolved
>>>> inorganic silicon' rather than 'silicate' in new Standard Names.
>>>> I also think it's worth some clarification in the definition to
>>>> explain how things can be dissolved in something that many would
>>>> think of as a solid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So that will give us:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> moles_of_nitrogen_per_unit_area_in_seabed_sediment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> unit: mol/m2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> description: moles_of_X_per_unit_area_in_Y describes the amount
>>>> of X in a column with unity base area of material/compartment Y.
>>>> 'Seabed sediment' means particulate matter bound at the sea
>>>> floor including interstitial pore water. Information on the
>>>> location of the interface between water column and sediment can
>>>> be provided via the comment attribute.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> moles_of_dissolved_inorganic_silicon_per_unit_area_in_seabed_sediment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> unit: mol/m2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> description: moles_of_X_per_unit_area_in_Y describes the amount
>>>> of X in a column with unity base area of material/compartment Y.
>>>> 'Seabed sediment' means particulate matter bound at the sea
>>>> floor including interstitial pore water. Information on the
>>>> location of the interface between water column and sediment can
>>>> be provided via the comment attribute. 'Dissolved inorganic
>>>> silicon' means the sum of all inorganic silicon in solution
>>>> (including silicic acid and its first dissociated anion
>>>> SiO(OH)3-).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Roy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am retiring on 31/05/2018 but will continue to be active
>>>> through an Emeritus Fellowship using this e-mail address.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* CF-metadata <cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>> <mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of Daniel
>>>> Neumann <daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>>> <mailto:daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>>> *Sent:* 17 May 2018 19:58
>>>> *To:* cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu <mailto:cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] No standard names for element
>>>> concentrations in sediment?
>>>>
>>>> Great :-) . Then I would like to propose the following two new
>>>> standard names:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> moles_of_nitrogen_per_unit_area_in_seabed_sediment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> unit: mol/m2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> description: moles_of_X_per_unit_area_in_Y describes the amount
>>>> of X in a column with unity base area of material/compartment Y.
>>>> 'Sediment' means particulate matter bound at the sea floor.
>>>> Information on the location of the interface between water
>>>> column and sediment can be provided via the comment attribute.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> moles_of_silicate_expressed_as_silicon_per_unit_area_in_seabed_sediment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> unit: mol/m2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> description: moles_of_X_per_unit_area_in_Y describes the amount
>>>> of X in a column with unity base area of material/compartment Y.
>>>> 'Sediment' means particulate matter bound at the sea floor.
>>>> Information on the location of the interface between water
>>>> column and sediment can be provided via the comment attribute.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17.05.2018 16:00, Lowry, Roy K. wrote:
>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That works for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, Roy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am retiring on 31/05/2018 but will continue to be active
>>>>> through an Emeritus Fellowship using this e-mail address.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* CF-metadata <cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>>> <mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of Daniel
>>>>> Neumann <daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>>>> <mailto:daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>>>> *Sent:* 17 May 2018 10:41
>>>>> *To:* CF Metadata Mail List
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] No standard names for element
>>>>> concentrations in sediment?
>>>>> Dear Roy, Dear Jonathan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the feedback. I see that sediment might be
>>>>> ambiguous. Would "seabed sediment" or "marine seabed sediment"
>>>>> be an acceptable alternative?
>>>>>
>>>>> moles_of_nitrogen_per_unit_area_in_seabed_sediment
>>>>>
>>>>> This would clarify that the sea floor is meant as location of
>>>>> the sediment. It would also clarify that not bare rock is
>>>>> meant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16.05.2018 11:42, Lowry, Roy K. wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks Daniel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Couple of additional thoughts that struck me. Is there
>>>>>> possibility of confusion between seafloor sediment and
>>>>>> suspended sediment? What if the seabed was bare rock? So,
>>>>>> might:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> moles_of_nitrogen_per_unit_area_in_seabed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> be better?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let?s see if we get any other thoughts on the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, Roy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:*CF-metadata <cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>>>> <mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu> *On Behalf Of
>>>>>> *Daniel Neumann
>>>>>> *Sent:* 16 May 2018 09:28
>>>>>> *To:* CF Metadata Mail List <cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>>>> <mailto:cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] No standard names for element
>>>>>> concentrations in sediment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Roy,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think benthos chemistry is virgin territory for CF - not
>>>>>> really surprising for a standard that started in the
>>>>>> atmosphere before dipping its toes in the ocean.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm presuming your coming from a modelling perspective,
>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In our current model setup (ecosystem model of the water
>>>>>> column) we have a fairly simple sediment and write out the
>>>>>> nitrogen amount per m2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This name might be appropriate for this purpose:
>>>>>> moles_of_nitrogen_per_unit_area_in_sediment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> unit:
>>>>>> mol/m2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> description:
>>>>>> moles_of_X_per_unit_area_in_Y describes the amount of X in a
>>>>>> column with unity base area of material/compartment Y.
>>>>>> 'Sediment' means particulate matter bound at the sea floor.
>>>>>> Information on the location of the interface between water
>>>>>> column and sediment can be provided via the comment
>>>>>> attribute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15.05.2018 18:30, Lowry, Roy K. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Daniel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think benthos chemistry is virgin territory for CF - not
>>>>>> really surprising for a standard that started in the atmosphere
>>>>>> before dipping its toes in the ocean.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some thoughts based on my experience with observed sediment
>>>>>> chemistry data. The data may be reported per unit mass of wet
>>>>>> or dry sediment or per unit volume of wet sediment. Also it is
>>>>>> worth making clear that 'sediment' means sediment of all grain
>>>>>> sizes (say a phrase like 'total_sediment') as samples are
>>>>>> frequently sieved prior to analysis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm presuming your coming from a modelling perspective, so I'm
>>>>>> not totally clear about your needs, but would something like
>>>>>> 'mole_concentration_of_nitrogen_in_wet_total_sediment' be what
>>>>>> you would be looking for?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers, Roy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am retiring on 31/05/2018 but will continue to be active
>>>>>> through an Emeritus Fellowship using this e-mail address.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:*CF-metadata <cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>>>> <mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of Daniel
>>>>>> Neumann <daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>>>>> <mailto:daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>>>>> *Sent:* 15 May 2018 16:51
>>>>>> *To:* CF Metadata Mail List
>>>>>> *Subject:* [CF-metadata] No standard names for element
>>>>>> concentrations in sediment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear CF Mailing List,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking for standard names to describe the mole
>>>>>> concentration of
>>>>>> nitrogen in the sediment. The CF standard name table does not
>>>>>> contain
>>>>>> any standard names regarding "mole_concentration" in
>>>>>> "sediment". I was
>>>>>> wondering whether another term than "sediment" was used for
>>>>>> such names.
>>>>>> I also tried "mud", "seabed", and "sea_bed". Or do no such
>>>>>> standard
>>>>>> names exist at all?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CF-metadata mailing list
>>>>>> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu <mailto:CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>>>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CF-metadata Info Page - mailman.cgd.ucar.edu
>>>>>> <http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mailman.cgd.ucar.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an unmoderated list for discussions about
>>>>>> interpretation, clarification, and proposals for extensions or
>>>>>> change to the CF conventions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only.
>>>>>> NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the
>>>>>> contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed
>>>>>> by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any
>>>>>> material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic
>>>>>> records management system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient
>>>>>> only. NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000
>>>>>> and the contents of this email and any reply you make may be
>>>>>> disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the
>>>>>> Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an
>>>>>> electronic records management system.
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only.
>>>>> NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the
>>>>> contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed
>>>>> by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any
>>>>> material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic
>>>>> records management system.
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CF-metadata mailing list
>>>>> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu <mailto:CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu>
>>>>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only.
>>>> NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the
>>>> contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed
>>>> by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any
>>>> material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records
>>>> management system.
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> Daniel Neumann
>>>
>>> Leibniz Institute for Baltic Sea Research Warnemuende
>>> Physical Oceanography and Instrumentation
>>> Seestrasse 15
>>> 18119 Rostock
>>> Germany
>>>
>>> phone: +49-381-5197-287
>>> fax: +49-381-5197-114 or 440
>>> e-mail:daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de <mailto:daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC
>>> is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents
>>> of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed by NERC
>>> unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any material
>>> supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records management
>>> system.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Daniel Neumann
>>
>> Leibniz Institute for Baltic Sea Research Warnemuende
>> Physical Oceanography and Instrumentation
>> Seestrasse 15
>> 18119 Rostock
>> Germany
>>
>> phone: +49-381-5197-287
>> fax: +49-381-5197-114 or 440
>> e-mail: daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CF-metadata mailing list
>> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> _______________________________________________
> CF-metadata mailing list
> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
--
Daniel Neumann
Leibniz Institute for Baltic Sea Research Warnemuende
Physical Oceanography and Instrumentation
Seestrasse 15
18119 Rostock
Germany
phone: +49-381-5197-287
fax: +49-381-5197-114 or 440
e-mail: daniel.neumann at io-warnemuende.de
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