Dear Jim,
Thanks for your comments. They all make sense to me and I'm on board
with your suggested definition. I'll just wait for others to comment,
if needed, then we can converge on a final definition. Sincerely,
Jonathan
On 6/14/2013 2:11 PM, Jim Biard wrote:
> Jonathan,
>
> I still don't believe that the surface temperature concept that
> Jonathan Gregory has ever been what people were intending when they
> make the surface_temperature standard name, but I'll abide by whatever
> folks decide.
>
> On a different front, I don't think the definition of the standard
> name should include statements about technology used (measured by an
> infrared radiometer?). The definition should speak only to the
> measured quantity, without reference to the way in which you happen to
> be measuring it. Likewise, there is no need for the statement
> regarding variability of the quantity. Also, the surface in this name
> is not the lower boundary of the atmosphere. It is the upper boundary
> of the land. An non-volatile object in a hard vacuum has a surface
> skin temperature.
>
> Given all that, I'd suggest this for your definition:
>
> Standard Name: land_surface_skin_temperature
>
> Definition: The land surface skin temperature is the aggregate
> temperature of the "skin" of the land surface, which extends
> vertically approximately 12 micrometers below the land surface.
>
> If people really think it needs to be spelled out even further, add
> the sentence "The land surface is the upper boundary of the land."
>
> Grace and peace,
>
> Jim
>
> Jim Biard
> Research Scholar
> Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites <http://www.cicsnc.org/>
> Remote Sensing and Applications Division
> National Climatic Data Center <http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/>
> 151 Patton Ave, Asheville, NC 28801-5001
>
> jim.biard at noaa.gov <mailto:jim.biard at noaa.gov>
> 828-271-4900
>
>
>
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>
> On Jun 14, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Jonathan Wrotny <jwrotny at aer.com
> <mailto:jwrotny at aer.com>> wrote:
>
>> Dear Jonathan Gregory,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply...this certainly helps to clear things up for
>> me. I now better understand the meaning of the "surface_temperature"
>> standard name with the temperature defined by heat fluxes at an
>> interface, and not based on an actual medium.
>>
>> This also makes it obvious to me that my proposed standard name
>> "land_surface_skin_temperature" does not currently exist within CF
>> and could serve as an analogue to "sea_surface_skin_temperature." To
>> summarize, here is my current proposal:
>>
>> Standard Name: land_surface_skin_temperature
>>
>> Definition:The surface called "surface" means the lower boundary of
>> the atmosphere. The land surface skin temperature is the temperature
>> measured by an infrared radiometer, but measurements from microwave
>> radiometers operating at GHz wavelengths also exist. It represents
>> the aggregate temperature of the skin surface where ?skin? means the
>> surface medium viewed by a sensor to a vertical depth of
>> approximately 12 micrometers.
>>
>> Measurements of this quantity are subject to a large potential
>> diurnal cycle which is primarily due to the balance between heating
>> during the day by solar radiation and continual cooling from
>> terrestrial (long-wave) radiation emitted by the skin surface.
>>
>> Canonical Units:K
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Jonathan Wrotny
>>
>> On 6/14/2013 1:22 PM, Jonathan Gregory wrote:
>>> Dear Jonathan
>>>
>>> I defer to Roy about the various sea water temperature names.
>>>
>>> It is physically meaningful to have a temperature which doesn't relate to any
>>> material layer. If there is no matter associated with it, it must have zero
>>> heat capacity, so the temperature is determined by requiring an exact balance
>>> of heat fluxes. For this to be possible, the heat fluxes concerned must depend
>>> on the temperature, which of course they generally do. Obviously this is an
>>> idealisation, but a surface interface temperature of this kind really can
>>> exist in a model, although it's not an observational quantity. A model can
>>> obtain such a temperature by solving simultaneously for the heat fluxes that
>>> are balanced at the interface.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> Jonathan G
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CF-metadata mailing list
>>> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
>>
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Received on Fri Jun 14 2013 - 12:45:28 BST
