Dear all,
I have re-launched the discussion about the CF names for aerosols and
chemistry with my colleagues. The emails are copied to the wiki for your
information.
http://wiki.esipfed.org/index.php/Talk:CF_Standard_Names_-_CF_Standard_Names_-_Submitted_Atmospheric_Chemistry_and_Aerosol_Terms
Best regards,
Christiane
-------- Message original --------
Sujet: Re: CF names for aerosols and chemistry updated: PLEASE COMMENT !
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:01:15 +0200
De: Michael Schulz <michael.schulz at lsce.ipsl.fr>
Pour: Frank Dentener <frank.dentener at jrc.it>, Mian Chin
<mian.chin at nasa.gov>, christiane.textor at lsce.ipsl.fr
Copie: Michael Schulz <michael.schulz at cea.fr>, Yves Balkanski
<yves.balkanski at lsce.ipsl.fr>, Stefan Kinne <stefan.kinne at zmaw.de>
R?f?rences: <4694F91C.3020003 at lsce.ipsl.fr>
<6.2.1.2.2.20070711163206.0439b250 at presto.gsfc.nasa.gov>
<46963368.5060405 at jrc.it>
Hi Frank, Mian and especially Christiane,
As Frank said: I understand what you say.
However, I would say that in practice
this AOD business indeed created and will create problems.
I fear even for HTAP we need to reask modellers
what they really provided.
So the only way (for the future) would be to elaborate
on the clear definition of what the variables mean.
1) I propose that we clearly state which dry mass is
associated to a given AOD. If we wish to describe
the dry soluble mass in terms of salts, then we have
to express that in the name.
So I think we need to propose in addition to
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_sulfate_ambient_aerosol
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_ammonium_ambient_aerosol
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_nitrate_ambient_aerosol
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_sodium_ambient_aerosol
(note: if only "sulfate" is given I would assume, that no ammonium
is associated to it)
the following:
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_ammonium_sulfate_ambient_aerosol
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_ammonium_bi_sulfate_ambient_aerosol
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_sulfuric_acid_ambient_aerosol
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_ammonium_nitrate_ambient_aerosol
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_sodium_nitrate_ambient_aerosol
For all these categories I propose the associated water has been either
split according to volume of dry mass among aerosol components
present in the soluble, mixed aerosol or according to a model
derived water attribution. In any case the CF description should
express the need that the sum of the species AOD should equal
the total ambient AOD! However one has split the water and species.
(nonlinear problems are for research papers.....)
I think it would also be needed to explain what this means:
atmosphere_optical_thickness_due_to_water_in_ambient_aerosol
To my understanding it is the difference between the total dry aerosol
and the total ambient aerosol AOD.
well, well
Michael
Frank Dentener a ?crit :
> Hi Mian;
> I understand what you say- but you'll have the same discussion with e.g.
> water in ambient aerosol: it can not exist without other component. It
> is the consequence of artificially seperating the components of an
> internally mixed aerosol system.
> I do not think that in practice it will cause problems.
> f
>
> Mian Chin wrote:
>> Christiane,
>>
>> The names are pretty clear to me, except the sulfate, nitrate, and
>> ammonium aerosol optical depth parts: Because ammonium has to be
>> associated with sulfate and nitrate (or other anions), it is not an
>> independent aerosol species; I am not sure the meaning of "ammonium
>> aerosol".
>>
>> Also, I think the terms of SO2 gas phase destruction, SO2 aqueous
>> phase destruction, (or sulfate gas phase and aqueous phase
>> production), SO2 gas phase production, DMS gas phase destruction
>> should be included in the "tendencies due to chemical reactions"
>> category.
>>
>> Mian
>>
>>
>> At 11:37 AM 7/11/2007, Christiane Textor wrote:
>>
>>> Dear aerosol and chemistry modellers,
>>>
>>> I would like to ask for your comments on the standard names for the
>>> CF conventions for aerosols and chemistry, mainly concerning their
>>> sources and sinks, and optical thickness.
>>>
>>> It is important that these names are checked by many people because
>>> they have to be understandable across communities. It would be very
>>> helpful if you could have a quick look!!
>>>
>>> The names can be found at:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.esipfed.org/index.php/CF_Standard_Names_-_CF_Standard_Names_-_Submitted_Atmospheric_Chemistry_and_Aerosol_Terms
>>>
>>>
>>> In May, about 30 names have been accepted:
>>> http://wiki.esipfed.org/index.php/CF_Standard_Names_-_Accepted_names_for_aerosols_and_chemistry
>>>
>>> http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/5/cf-standard-name-table.html
>>>
>>>
>>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Christiane
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==
>>>
>>> Christiane Textor
>>> Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l'Environnement
>>> Unite Mixte de Recherche CEA-CNRS-UVSQ
>>>
>>> LSCE, CEA Saclay
>>> L'Orme des Merisiers, Bat. 701 Piece 3b
>>> mailto: christiane.textor at lsce.ipsl.fr
>>> Tel ++33 1 69 08 34 07
>>> F-91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex
>>> FRANCE
>>>
>>> GEOMON scientific project manager http://www.geomon.eu
>>> ======================================================================
>>>
>>
>> ======================================
>> Mian Chin
>> NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Code 613.3
>> Greenbelt, MD 20771 U.S.A.
>> Phone: 301-614-6007
>> Fax: 301-614-5903
>> Email: Mian.Chin at nasa.gov
>> ======================================
>>
>
>
--
==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==
Christiane Textor
Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l'Environnement
Unite Mixte de Recherche CEA-CNRS-UVSQ
LSCE, CEA Saclay
L'Orme des Merisiers, Bat. 701 Piece 3b
mailto: christiane.textor at lsce.ipsl.fr
Tel ++33 1 69 08 34 07
F-91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex
FRANCE
GEOMON scientific project manager http://www.geomon.eu
======================================================================
Received on Fri Jul 13 2007 - 02:25:58 BST
