Hi.
I must respectfully disagree with any change to the solar irradiance
definition. The definition is accurate and correct, whether you are a
solar physicist or an oceanographer. The Wikipedia article on solar
irradiance gives good definitions for the various specific terms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_irradiance
Notice that none of the various terms ever treat the direct solar power
per unit area of a horizontal surface as a quantity unto itself. The
Vaisala definitions are essentially the same as the ones in the
Wikipedia article. The terms in use are:
* Total Solar Irradiance - The power per unit area incident on a
surface normal to the sun from direct solar radiation measured at
top of atmosphere.
* Direct Normal Irradiance - The power per unit area incident on a
surface normal to the sun from direct solar radiation measured at
the surface.
* Diffuse Horizontal Irradiance - The power per unit area incident on
a horizontal surface from all sources other than direct solar radiation.
* Global Horizontal Irradiance - The power per unit area incident on a
horizontal surface from all sources, including direct solar radiation.
I found one reference online to Direct Horizontal Irradiance. It does
not appear to be in common use in any community.
I can see defining standard names for the four terms above, but I think
that prior usage and general science usage call for solar_irradiance to
be associated only with TSI. So, we could have standard names
* total_solar_irradiance
* direct_normal_irradiance
* direct_horizontal_irradiance
* diffuse_horizontal_irradiance
* global_horizontal_irradiance
with solar_irradiance as an alias for total_solar_irradiance, or vice
versa, but I think we shouldn't alter the definition of solar_irradiance.
Grace and peace,
Jim
On 1/26/18 11:52 AM, martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk wrote:
> Dear Roy,
>
> If we were starting from scratch I would recommend the following:
>
> Solar irradiance is the power per unit area of the solar radiation received from above at horizontal surface. It is distinct from the Direct Normal Irradiance (which refers to radiation received by a surface perpendicular to rays travelling from the sun) and the Total Solar Irradiance (which is the mean value of Direct Normal Irradiance at a standard distance from the sun).
>
> I am, however, concerned that people may have already, on the basis of the current definition, used the term for Total Solar Irradiance.
>
> regards,
> Martin
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Lowry, Roy K. [rkl at bodc.ac.uk]
> Sent: 26 January 2018 16:03
> To: Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
> Subject: Re: Definiton of solar_irradiance
>
> Dear Martin,
>
>
> I agree that the current definition reflects more an astrophysics textbook rather than common usage of the Standard Name and so I would support tweaking the wording as you suggest. Care to come up with the replacement wording to be used?
>
>
> Cheers, Roy.
>
>
> Please note that I partially retired on 01/11/2015. I am now only working 7.5 hours a week and can only guarantee e-mail response on Wednesdays, my day in the office. All vocabulary queries should be sent to enquiries at bodc.ac.uk. Please also use this e-mail if your requirement is urgent.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk <martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk>
> Sent: 26 January 2018 15:57
> To: Lowry, Roy K.; cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
> Subject: RE: Definiton of solar_irradiance
>
> Hello Roy,
>
> I suspected that there might be such a usage ... but don't you agree that the current CF definition, which I've quoted below, is inconsistent with this? But it could be adapted with a small change of wording,
>
> regards,
> Martin
>
> ________________________________
> From: Lowry, Roy K. [rkl at bodc.ac.uk]
> Sent: 26 January 2018 15:51
> To: Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
> Subject: Re: Definiton of solar_irradiance
>
>
> Hello Martin,
>
>
> From an oceanographic perspective I had always thought of solar (and other waveband) irradiance as the energy incident on the sea surface, which is a horizontal surface. So, I would like to think of solar_irradiance as being horizontal_solar_irradiance and if any new Standard Name is required to cover the current Vaisala instrumentation use case then that should be normal_standard_irradiance.
>
>
> Cheers, Roy.
>
>
> Please note that I partially retired on 01/11/2015. I am now only working 7.5 hours a week and can only guarantee e-mail response on Wednesdays, my day in the office. All vocabulary queries should be sent to enquiries at bodc.ac.uk. Please also use this e-mail if your requirement is urgent.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk <martin.juckes at stfc.ac.uk>
> Sent: 26 January 2018 13:37
> To: cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
> Subject: [CF-metadata] Definiton of solar_irradiance
>
> Hello,
>
> the cf standard name has a definition:
>
> The quantity with standard name solar_irradiance, often called Total Solar Irradiance (TSI), is the radiation from the sun integrated over the whole electromagnetic spectrum and over the entire solar disk. The quantity applies outside the atmosphere, by default at a distance of one astronomical unit from the sun, but a coordinate or scalar coordinate variable of distance_from_sun can be used to specify a value other than the default. "Irradiance" means the power per unit area (called radiative flux in other standard names), the area being normal to the direction of flow of the radiant energy.
>
> My question is about the last phrase, which I have highlighted. The flow of radiant energy from the sun at the top of the atmosphere is directed away from the sun .. so this definition would imply that the irradiance is defined relative to a fixed plane in the solar coordinate system. This is OK for solar physicists, but atmospheric scientists are sometime interested in irradiance relative to a horizontal surface.
>
> Vaisalla distinguish between the two by defining "horizontal solar irradiance" to be the irradiance on a horizontal surface and "normal solar irradiance" to be irradiance on a surface perpendicular to a line to the sun (<UrlBlockedError.aspx>http://www.3tier.com/en/support/solar-online-tools/what-solar-values-are-shown-map/ ).
>
> Should "solar_irradiance" apply to both usages, or do we need a new standard name, e.g. "horizonatl_solar_irradiance"?
>
> regards,
> Martin
>
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