Jonathan,
I'd say this is a lot of where the misunderstanding lies.
I agree that if the calendar and time system are specified as
Gregorian/NLS, then you should not involve leap seconds in your
calculations going between times represented as HH:MM:SS and elapsed
times since your epoch. But if the calendar and time system are
specified as Gregorian/UTC, then you should involve leap seconds in
those same calculations. But in either case you *should* end up with a
set of elapsed times in your time variable that don't have any leap
second offsets or discontinuities.
Let's say I have a machine that counts the number of total seconds and
86,400 second periods (standard days) that have gone by since I started
it, which was on Jan 1, 1970. (A UNIX system with a super-accurate CPU
clock.) When I have a leap day, I don't add or subtract anything from
the counts the machine has. What I do is use the algorithms specified by
the Gregorian calendar to represent February as having one more day than
usual so that my YYYY-MM-DD calendar date stays more closely aligned
with Earth's position in its orbit. Leap seconds are just like that. I
don't add or subtract anything from the counts my machine has. I use the
algorithms specified by the UTC time system to represent June 30 (in a
year when I have a leap second) as having one more second in the last
minute of the last hour so that my HH:MM:SS clock time stays more
closely aligned with Earth's position in its rotation.
In the particular case of *nix systems using the Network Time Protocol,
getting the system to display the correct UTC time actually is
accomplished by subtracting a second from the elapsed time being counted
by the system, thus ensuring that any long term recording of elapsed
times since the computer was started does, in fact, include leap second
discontinuities. This can add a whole other facet to the general problem
of how to get all of this right as a data producer if I'm getting my
time from my *nix machine. I don't know for sure how Windows boxes
handle it, but I don't think it's actually any better.
Grace and peace,
Jim
On 5/13/15 12:54 PM, Jonathan Gregory wrote:
> Dear Jim
>
> I think your last email (which didn't go to the email list) explains why we
> have not been understanding each other about your points 2 and 3:
>
>> There shouldn't be (or there is no) good reason to use a different
>> calendar to encode and decode, but this is exactly what has been
>> done with regard to times. As a netCDF file producer, if you have a
>> set of observations that have attached correct Gregorian/UTC date &
>> time strings and you use a POSIX calculator to encode your times
>> since your correct Gregorian/UTC reference date & time string, then
>> you are at risk of producing incorrect elapsed time values. (Whether
>> you actually do or not depends on factors mentioned in previous
>> emails.) The contents of time variables *should* always be true
>> counts of time that has elapsed since the reference epoch and
>> *should* never, ever encode leap second induced discontinuities or
>> offsets.
> That's not how I understand what we've been discussing. I think that if
> calendar="gregorian[_nls]" then the encoding/decoding should be done without
> leap seconds (86400 s per day), but if calendar="gregorian_utc" the encoding/
> decoding should be done with leap seconds according to UTC. This why I see
> the issue as being one that relates to the calendar, and not to the units
> or the reference time, which are calendar-neutral. Is this what we disagree on?
>
> I can see there's a difficulty with the UTC calendar that if a second is taken
> out there will be two consecutive seconds with the same timestamp. This is
> a problem for encoding - the data-writer would have to be careful that he
> chose the right one. It's not a problem for using the encoded time coords,
> which will be monotonic and run forward at 1 second per second, nor for
> decoding, which will correctly produce the repeated timestamp. Inserting a
> leap second is the same kind of discontinuity as the change from Julian to
> Gregorian calendar. It means that there is a range of date-times which cannot
> be encoded because they are not valid, but decoding is no problem. Similarly
> there are dates which are valid in some calendars but not others, such as
> 30 Feb being valid in the 360_day calendar.
>
> I think my view is consistent with the general treatment of calendars by CF.
> The encoding/decoding algorithm differs, but the same units string could
> always be used.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jonathan
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Received on Wed May 13 2015 - 11:35:17 BST
