Hi all,
I'm getting confused now.
I understood Alison last proposal as keeping only one name :
surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1
surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1.
Philip's mail, seemed to imply that both names could be used as he
liked Alison's distinction...
Could you clarify what the final decision?
For info, yes the data do include aircraft, chimneys,... emissions as
these data are derived from country based reporting of fossil fuel trades.
Hence the aircraft emissions from US carriers are in the US numbers and
hence assigned on the US territory. This might be OK for US as most of
the flight are domestic, but I'm sure this is 99.9 % wrong for Belgium ;-).
Saying emissions are a vertical integral here would imply that planes
are only flying up and down !
Anyway, I will leave with either or definition (you'll just have to
explain what the "tendency" one mean to non-chemists...)
Best
Pierre
On 22/09/2010 17:28, Cameron-smith, Philip wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Even if the dataset doesn't have vertical information, if it includes aircraft emissions then the physical quantity it is quantifying is the vertical integral rather than the surface emission. In which case I would favour tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_
>
> If there are no aircraft in the data, then do smoke stacks produce 'surface emissions'? An interesting question that could be debated. Hence, another advantage of tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_ is that it makes the question moot.
>
> BTW, FWIW, I note that the closest related standard name already in the table specifies the downward direction (surface_downward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon).
>
> On a different note, I like Alison's distinction between
>
> tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_..._due_to_anthropogenic_emission
>
> and
>
> surface_upward_mass_flux_of_..._due_to_anthropogenic_emission
>
> Perhaps we should cross-reference such standard names in their descriptions to help future users?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Philip
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dr Philip Cameron-Smith, pjc at llnl.gov, Lawrence Livermore Nat. Lab.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-
>> bounces at cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Pierre Friedlingstein
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 6:01 AM
>> To: alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk
>> Cc: cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
>>
>> Alison,
>> I see your point.
>> As far as I know the anthropogenic emissions data will be surface
>> fluxes. Data are based on country level consumption of fossil fuel,
>> they don't have the info on where in the air it is released...
>> Pierre
>>
>> On 22/09/2010 13:04, alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Pierre,
>>>
>>> My thinking here was that 'anthropegenic emissions' (which presumably
>>> include fossil fuel emissions) and 'fossil fuel' emissions themselves
>>> do not necessarily always occur at the earth's surface. For example,
>>> emissions from tall chimneys and aircraft may occur at many levels in
>>> the atmosphere. It was not clear to me that these particular
>>> quantities in the CMIP5 tables are intended only to account for
>>>
>> surface emissions.
>>
>>> If that is the case, then we certainly need to make it clear and I
>>> agree with your suggestion to label them as surface fluxes. So
>>>
>> instead
>>
>>> of introducing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_car
>>
>>> bo n_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1
>>>
>>>
>> tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_car
>>
>>> bo n_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1
>>>
>>> I will add
>>>
>>>
>> surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_
>>
>>> an
>>> thropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1
>>>
>>>
>> surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_
>>
>>> em ission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1.
>>>
>>> OK?
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Alison
>>>
>>> ------
>>> Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065
>>> NCAS/British Atmospheric Data Centre Fax: +44 1235 446314
>>> Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Email:
>>>
>> alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk
>>
>>> Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Pierre Friedlingstein [mailto:P.Friedlingstein at exeter.ac.uk]
>>>> Sent: 21 September 2010 16:41
>>>> To: Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,SSTD)
>>>> Cc: j.m.gregory at reading.ac.uk; cf-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>>>> Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] CMIP5 carbon cycle standard names
>>>>
>>>> Hi Alison,
>>>> Just wondering, why are the first two variables below named as
>>>> "tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of..."
>>>> while all others are named as "surface_upward_mass_flux_of_ ..."
>>>> Any reason ?
>>>> I know the "tendency..." is used for other chemical species... But
>>>>
>>>>
>>> here
>>>
>>>
>>>> for CO2 variables, I think intra-consistency should be favoured. No
>>>>
>> ?
>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>> On 21/09/2010 13:40, alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Jonathan and Pierre,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you both for your comments on the CMIP5 carbon cycle names.
>>>>> Looking back through this thread I think we have resolved all the
>>>>> outstanding issues and so the following names are now accepted for
>>>>> inclusion in the standard name table:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_ca
>>
>>>> r
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> bo n_due_to_anthropogenic_emission; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> tendency_of_atmosphere_mass_content_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_ca
>>
>>>> r
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> bo n_due_to_emission_from_fossil_fuel_combustion; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>> surface_upward_mass_flux_of_carbon_due_to_natural_emission; kg m-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> s-1
>>>>> atmosphere_mass_of_carbon_dioxide; kg
>>>>> carbon_content_of_products_of_land_use_change; kg m-2
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emis
>>
>>>> s
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> io n_from_fires_excluding_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emis
>>
>>>> s
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> io
>>>>> n_from_grazing; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_emis
>>
>>>> s
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> io
>>>>> n_from_crop_harvesting; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_net_upward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_
>>
>>>> e
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> mi ssion_from_anthropogenic_land_use_change; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_net_downward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_t
>>
>>>> o
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _p
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> hotosynthesis_and_respiration_and_fires_including_land_use_change;
>>>
>>>
>>>>> kg
>>>>> m-2 s-1
>>>>> carbon_flux_into_soil_from_litter; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>> carbon_flux_into_soil_from_vegetation_excluding_litter; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>> leaf_carbon_content; kg m-2 wood_carbon_content; kg m-2
>>>>> root_carbon_content; kg m-2
>>>>> carbon_content_of_miscellaneous_living_matter; kg m-2 (N.B.
>>>>> 'miscellaneous' means carbon content of living matter apart from
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> those
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> individually named in the preceding three items)
>>>>> wood_debris_carbon_content; kg m-2 surface_litter_carbon_content;
>>>>>
>> kg
>>
>>>>> m-2 subsurface_litter_carbon_content; kg m-2
>>>>> fast_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> medium_soil_pool_carbon_content;
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> kg m-2 slow_soil_pool_carbon_content; kg m-2
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_upward_carbon_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_growt
>>
>>>> h
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ;
>>>>> kg m-2 s-1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_upward_carbon_flux_due_to_plant_respiration_for_biomass_maint
>>
>>>> e
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> na
>>>>> nce; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>> net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_leaves; kg m-2 s-
>>>>>
>> 1
>>
>>>>> net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_wood; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>> net_primary_productivity_of_carbon_accumulated_in_roots; kg m-2 s-1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> surface_net_downward_flux_of_carbon_dioxide_expressed_as_carbon_due_t
>>
>>>> o
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _p
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> hotosynthesis_and_respiration_and_fires_excluding_land_use_change;
>>>
>>>
>>>>> kg
>>>>> m-2 s-1.
>>>>>
>>>>> To cope with the various fractional vegetation coverage quantities
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> we
>>>
>>>
>>>>> will use the existing standard name area_fraction and introduce new
>>>>> entries of primary_evergreen_trees, secondary_deciduous_trees,
>>>>> secondary_evergreen_trees, C3_plant_functional_types,
>>>>> C4_plant_functional_types into the area_type table.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>> Alison
>>>>>
>>>>> ------
>>>>> Alison Pamment Tel: +44 1235 778065
>>>>> NCAS/British Atmospheric Data Centre Fax: +44 1235 446314
>>>>> Rutherford Appleton Laboratory Email:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> alison.pamment at stfc.ac.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Chilton, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
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