[CF-metadata] new chemical species

From: Pascoe, S <S.Pascoe>
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:46:04 +0100

I am very glad the danger of standard name explosion is being addressed on this list. I have been following the aerosol discussion for some time with the concern that the standard name system isn't going to scale to the complexity of the atmospheric chemistry I am familiar with.

The atmospheric chemical kinetics community work with considerably more detailed chemistry than CF could currently support. In particular the Leeds Master Chemical Mechanism (http://mcm.leeds.ac.uk/MCM) contains over 5,600 species representing the reaction of organic species in the troposphere. The mechanism, or subsets thereof, are routinely used in box and trajectory modelling and therefore adopting a standard such as CF would be a considerable benefit to us. However I think we can all appreciate the standard name system isn't going to scale to this level of complexity.

I have other concerns about the standard name system. "Standard names" are beginning to be more like "Standard phrases". As well as becoming more unwieldy to use I believe this will inevitably lead to ambiguity creeping in as names are constructed by more and more complex rules. The amount of discussion that is already generated by name proposals is indicative.

I think Roy's suggestion of an ontological approach has great merit. It isn't an easy option, in that developing formal ontologies is a complex task, but it acknowledges the true magnitude of the metadata problem we have.

Cheers,
Stephen.

---
Stephen Pascoe  +44 (0)1235 445980
British Atmospheric Data Centre
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
-----Original Message-----
From: cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-bounces at cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Christiane Textor
Sent: 11 July 2007 12:36
To: CF-metadata
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new chemical species
Hi Philip,
The names I have suggested are those commonly used in atmospheric models and have been suggested within the HTAP community. In such models, it is not possible to simulate >1000 species, and the proposed serve as placeholders if you like.
Best regards,
Christiane
Philip J. Cameron-smith a ?crit :
> 
> Hi Christiane,
> 
> I'm an atmospheric chemist working at Lawrence Livermore (down the 
> hall from Karl Taylor), and I'm fairly new to the CF mailing list.
> 
> I'm not sure of the context of your question.  Are you looking for a 
> list of all the chemistry species of possible interest to atmospheric 
> chemists, a list of 'common hydrocarbons', or something else?  A list 
> of possible gas-phase species could easily be over 1,000 long.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
>      Philip
> 
> 
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Christiane Textor wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I would like additional suggestions of new names:
>>
>> mole_fraction_of_carbon_dioxide_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_methane_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_formaldehyde_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_ethane_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_ethene_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_ethyne_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_propane_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_propene_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_benzene_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_toluene_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_xylene_in_air
>> mole_fraction_of_isoprene_in_air
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Christiane
>>
>>
>> --
>> ==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==new 
>> affiliation==
>>
>> Christiane Textor
>> Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l'Environnement Unite Mixte 
>> de Recherche CEA-CNRS-UVSQ
>>
>> LSCE, CEA Saclay
>> L'Orme des Merisiers, Bat. 701 Piece 3b
>> mailto: christiane.textor at lsce.ipsl.fr Tel ++33 1 69 08 34 07
>> F-91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex
>> FRANCE
>>
>> GEOMON scientific project manager http://www.geomon.eu 
>> =====================================================================
>> =
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CF-metadata mailing list
>> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
>>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dr Philip Cameron-Smith        Energy & Environment Directorate
> pjc at llnl.gov                   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
> +1 925 4236634                 7000 East Avenue, Livermore, CA94550, USA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
--
==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==
Christiane Textor
Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l'Environnement Unite Mixte de Recherche CEA-CNRS-UVSQ
LSCE, CEA Saclay
L'Orme des Merisiers, Bat. 701 Piece 3b
mailto: christiane.textor at lsce.ipsl.fr
Tel ++33 1 69 08 34 07
F-91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex
FRANCE
GEOMON scientific project manager http://www.geomon.eu ======================================================================
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Received on Mon Jul 23 2007 - 07:46:04 BST